049: A Grateful Life is Our Responsibility with Angela Henderson

[INTRODUCTION]

Arwen Becker: Well, hello, everyone, and welcome to the She Handled It podcast. I am your host, Arwen Becker, and I am so happy that you can join us for today's show. You know, I hate to sound like a broken record but, yes, I do talk about one topic quite often throughout these shows and the fact that I was the first of my friends to get married and the first to get divorced. And so, being divorced at 24, I realized pretty early on that I was responsible for how I dealt with the things that happened to me, that I couldn't force that responsibility on somebody else. As much as I, at 15, wanted to make a man my financial plan, that didn't really work out so well for me. And so, I did learn about 10 years later that I was responsible for myself no matter what happened. And today's guest knows that all too well. Angela Henderson is an international award-winning business coach for women and international keynote speaker, podcaster, blogger, and mental health clinician. She helps women get all the pieces in place to have consistent five-figure months without burning out in the process, that's the important part, and helps women unpack and overcome their inner challenges to improve their external results. Some people call that her superpower. She calls it experience. But something that likely makes her even more proud is that she is the adoring mother to Finlee and Chloe.

[INTERVIEW]

Arwen Becker: Ange, welcome to the show.

Angela Henderson: Hey, hey, lovely to be here today.

Arwen Becker: Well, from all the way across the world and a day ahead of me, welcome. I'm so happy to have you.

Angela Henderson: Super excited to be here.

Arwen Becker: So, before we launch into today's topic, why don't you tell me the song that you chose to go on our overcomer playlist and why did you choose it?

Angela Henderson: Yeah. So, I was watching or binge-watching American Idol, yes, American Idol a few weeks ago here in Australia. And there's a beautiful lady, her name is Jane, but when she sings she goes by Nightbirde. And this lady just took the presence of stage and she was calm and collective and they were talking about what does she do. And she’s just like, "You know, it's okay. Life's okay.” And then they said, "Well, have you been singing? And is that what your career is?” And she says, “No. Actually, I've been taking the last year off for cancer.” And everyone kind of goes really quiet and they just like look at her. And what she talks about in the song is it's okay and ultimately what she's saying is that we're all a little lost and it's okay and then she goes on to, "We're lost. We're all a little lost and it's alright.” And then she goes, “It's okay. It's okay. It's okay. We're lost. Again, we're all a little lost.” And I really resonated with this because in a time and in a world where we are conditioned that everything is supposed to be okay, she's actually challenged it to say, "Actually, it's okay if you're not okay because we're all just a little lost.” And I shared this on my own podcast and I shared this inside my Facebook group and other people are like, she's like, "Oh, my goodness, at least someone had said it. We're okay.” And so, that is the song that I think it's important is a song by Nightbirde called It's Okay and understanding that, again, we're ultimately all a little lost but it will be alright.

Arwen Becker: Yeah. Amen to that. That's good. I can't wait to pull that one up because I haven't heard that. Well, at least I don't know that I have heard that so I'm looking forward to hearing that. Well, you have quite a story and I'm really looking forward to having you unpack it a little bit because it's really the essence of what I opened with and that you really realized through the last number of years with a number of things that happened to you, that personal responsibility was still a big part of what you needed to do. So, why don't you take us back? What has happened in the last number of years?

Angela Henderson: I mean, listen, in a nutshell, it comes down to death, right? And I think death hits us all. I mean, death is part of it on any given day but for me, it was my grandmother died on Christmas, my brother then died on Mother's Day, a father-type figure died the following year on New Year's Day, a business acquaintance died 14 days after that, and just recently, a high school best friend died at the age of 40. So, it was like, okay, it's one thing, death, but I felt like I've got a pretty small family. I don't speak with my mother. I don't speak with my sister. There's pretty much myself, my dad, and my brother. That was it. And my grandma at that stage. Then my grandmother passes away. Okay. Yes, old age, still sad. Then my brother dies unexpectedly due to a heart attack. And so, then I'm like, "Oh my goodness. There's like only my dad and I really from our immediate family.” And then my best friend is in Canada. Lisa and her family has always kind of taken me under their wing so we've been best friends since we were 14. I’m now 42 so I've known them for a very long time. And her dad was very much also like a father figure because my dad and I weren’t close at the beginning. And then I get the call on New Year's Day. Dad’s died. And I'm like, "What the!” Like, I hear things come in threes. I get that, right? But I was like, how is it that my grandmother, my brother, and a father-type figure are gone within 18 months? And then two weeks later, a close business friend passed away driving down the motorway. A piece of a boat flew off, went through the windshield, hit him in the head and he died.

Arwen Becker: Oh, my goodness.

Angela Henderson: So, it’s like, “Okay, world. Like, universe, what are you doing?” And then like I said just recently, a high school friend has passed away due to liver failure. And so, I was like, "Okay.” A lot of people say, “Ange, why have you done what you've done? Like, still your podcast gets released every week. You're still a good mom. You still are running your business like you haven't really kind of stopped, Ange. Like, surely you haven't grieved.” And I think, again, we've been conditioned that grief has to be a particular way.

Arwen Becker: Sure. Right.

Angela Henderson: And my thing is, yes, I still grieve. You know, I can be driving and a song will come on out of nowhere and the grief will hit. I still allow the grief to come but we can't change what's already done. So, I've always just been around that essence that your life, your responsibility. We get to wake up every day and choose how we live it and how we don’t live it. But don't bitch and moan about your life if you're not happy with it, right? So, my thing is it's like, yes, I grieve but I still pick myself back up and continue to go through life and meet the goals that I want to meet and still be a good mom and do all those things, because ultimately no one's coming to save me. And that's the thing that I think in particular women is a lot of times, not all, but some women I see will be whining or moaning about their partners or this, that, and the other or not and I’m like, “Are you asking for help?”

Arwen Becker: Right.

Angela Henderson: “Are you actually communicating to them what you need? Or do you want someone to come in here and save you?”

Arwen Becker: Rescue you. Sure.

Angela Henderson: You know, no one's rescuing us.

Arwen Becker: Right. Right.

Angela Henderson: The only person that can do that is ourselves. So, for me, was again grieve when I needed to. Ultimately, I've just rock and rolled and life is life, you know.

Arwen Becker: Yeah. I think what you’ve said is so important. You've said a couple of times that grief comes and you weren't resisting it. You were letting the wave come through instead of what so many of us try to do, which is shut it down because we don't want to feel it. And so, allowing that grief wave to come through and it is different for everybody. That's the thing. I read a book years ago called A Grace Disguised, and I've brought it up a couple of times because it was such a significant point that the author was making when that A Grace Disguised was about overcoming grief and he was writing through his own grief in that he lost his wife, his daughter, and his mother in a head-on car accident, all in one moment that he was in and their other children were in. And he just said, "Grief is not something to compare.” I'm sure a lot of people will hear your story and go, "Oh, God, I mean, I don't think I could handle that.” What choice do you have? I mean, you don't have a choice. Those are outside circumstances. There's nothing you could have done to stop that. But doing this comparison like, well, I couldn't handle that and so I guess me losing my job isn't as bad as what you went through. It's all grief and that's what this author was saying. He hadn’t dealt with a divorce, never knew what that was like. He just lost his wife in a head-on car collision, never knew what it was to have cancer ravage a family member or something like that. And so, I think that that's just an important component to pull out because you've said it a couple of times so I think that that is really valuable.

Angela Henderson: And I think there too you mentioned the word loss. People get confused with loss and grief, but the true definition of grief is wherever there is loss, there is grief. And so, if you think about COVID, for example, and a lot of people are saying that COVID hasn’t impacted kids. COVID has impacted kids greater than what people will think because kids for what they have lost are significant to them and their cognitive ability to process, the loss of not making basketball teams because there's no more basketball teams, the loss of not being able to have their birthday party anymore, the loss of being able to hug their teacher. Those are significant milestones and important variables for their little souls. And so, they too have been grieving not because someone has died, but it doesn't mean that their loss is any less significant than someone who died. So, again, I was just speaking with a one-to-one client before I hopped on the call and she was talking about, "Oh, yeah, I'm a bit bummed.” She didn't get this grant that she had applied for. And I was like okay and she said, "Yeah, but da, da, da…” I was like, “Well, you do know that's still a loss and it's okay to be sad about it and to grieve about it.” And I was like, "That doesn't really mean that you're going to grieve to the extent of what you would with the death but it's okay.” And she's like, "Oh, no one's really talked about it.” So, wherever there is loss, there is grief. It just is how you process that.

Arwen Becker: Yeah. I mean, this is a stretch of about three years that you lost these individuals. Were there things that you wish people would have said to you or maybe not have said that wasn't helpful to you as you were going through your grief with the loss of all of these individuals?

Angela Henderson: Listen, the thing here is not necessarily because, again, I believe in the divine timing is that the world is working for you. So, I believe every comment, every hug, every not comment, do you know what I mean, is still relevant to where I'm at. It's because I still get to choose what I do with the words that people give me. So, even if I thought like, "Why would someone say that to me?” The reality of it is I guess I'm able to just sit back and go, "Well, maybe that's how they just thought they were being helpful.” But not everyone can sit in that. A lot of people get quite defensive because here's the thing. When emotion is high, reason is low. You’re emotionally sad because someone's died. You don't actually stop and go, “They're just trying to help.” Whereas I guess because of my mental health background and training, I'm always even when COVID and Black Lives Matters and all these things were going on, emotion was so high, rightfully so in some circumstances, right? But to try and have a conversation with someone who's emotionally driven, it's not going to be in anyone's favor because reason is low. And so, for me, just to answer that question, there's nothing really that didn’t not help me or not help me because the reality of it is whatever people said, I still need to then process it about how I took and what I did with that information.

And I just know that I think people are caught up in their own world. People are time-poor. So, I also think people were like, "Oh, I'll reach out to Ange. I don't really know what to say.” They say stuff. It might not have been as “compassionate” as what you would have thought, but ultimately they still took time to reach out. So, I look at it from a place of, "Thank you so much for reaching out. I appreciate that,” versus, "How dare they say something like that.” Because I just don't think people - a lot of people, too, in Western cultures, we're not equipped with grief. Like, when I used to work in the Fiji Islands, for example, when people die, it's like they kill a cow and the whole community comes and the body is there and you're actually grieving. In the New Zealand culture, they will bring the body and then a year later, there's an anniversary. So, it's like people are surrounded with grief and almost celebration of life. Us, we're told just to keep going, right? So, to answer your question in a nutshell, there wasn't necessarily anything that caught out because I look at it from a place of I think everyone's just trying to give support, but it just comes differently because not everyone knows what to say or what to do.

Arwen Becker: But through your experience, I mean, if there was a woman that's listening and she has a friend who's going through something similar, through some significant loss and doesn't know what to do, and it's kind of in that stand still place, I mean, what advice would you give to her that could be more beneficial?

Angela Henderson: Yeah. I mean, I guess I would say always remember to check-in is what I would say and literally set a calendar because there's a lot of people who will reach out in the initial stages. Also, people are driven by ego, right? “Oh, I did my good deed. I reached out.” But it's those people that in a month from now when the noise starts to die down, three months from now, right? A friend of mine, same type of friend but this is back in high school, she was killed, unfortunately, in a motorcycle accident. And that was what the mum said, “Continue to reach out.” And so, the thing is because grief comes in waves and because we Western culture compartmentalizes grief, I would say reach out to that person a month from now, six months from now, and a year from now, and just ask them, "Hey, just checking in. How are you?” Very basic. But the fact, the notion that you took the willingness out of your day to ask how they are I think is what people are missing in the world we're in. In a place where we are more “connected” than ever before by “social media,” whatever, people are actually more disconnected than ever before. So, when you have grief, again, constantly, just checking in on people and just asking how you are, you don’t have to say anything else, but then choose what they do with that.

But in a year from now, when they come out of the grief and they see you in their news feed, they're like, "Oh yeah. Johnny did reach out. Oh, actually, Johnny reached out three times. Jesus, that was really nice.” Because people again get caught up in their own world. So, for me, that's what I would say is set an alarm, put it on your Google calendar, do whatever that is, and just do the check-in because, again, I think the initial check-ins there, but people are so engulfed with their own lives dealing with funerals, whatever. It's who's still standing when all dies down.

Arwen Becker: Yeah. So, one of the things that I know you work with quite a bit with your coaching clients is not only that they're getting to this level of success in business, but that it comes with this other piece that they don't get burned out in the process. And so, back to what you have dealt with, how have you utilized that through your own life in this process? Because you said you still had your goals, you still made your podcast, you’re still doing these things, but how are you able to do that and still adequately care for yourself in the process?

Angela Henderson: I mean, for me, is again I'm very OCD characteristic so it's always about like being able to be present. So, for me, I'm present with my kids versus being balanced. So, it was about understanding when was I on and when was I off. So, it's like stepping away from the office, going outside and getting exercise, and just sitting in the sunshine. It might not even be exercise. It might have just been sitting in the sunshine. Just sitting in silence like sometimes it's the best thing that you can do from a state of meditation. But you're not saying go and meditate, but just sit and be with your thoughts. So, those are the things that I would do to avoid it. Now, during all of this, I should also add as a caveat, I was still working full time at the very beginning of it as a mental health clinician. And at that stage, I also had workplace bullying. So, though my burnout, I didn't get anxiety and depression because of burnout. I've got anxiety and depression due to workplace bullying. So, on top of dealing with the death, I was also having to deal with lawyers and the bullying stuff that was going on in the workplace, which then caused me to have to be on medication and stuff like that because then I received a formal diagnosis for depression and anxiety. But in that instance, it was not hands-on-heart related to the death. I wasn't in a depressive state because of the death. It was, yeah, because of what was...

Arwen Becker: Do you mind me asking what was going on at work, I mean, kind of on a high level?

Angela Henderson: Yes. As a mental health clinician, I was in charge of this particular role of a $3.5 million portfolio for those with severe mental illness. And so, my role was looking at how our clinical teams could work with the nonprofit teams in order to get people out of hospital and back into community because we know rehabilitation is more likely to happen in community than in hospital environments unless they needed to be there for safety purposes. And it came to my knowledge that one of the NGOs was taking $250,000 off someone who had killed himself and continued to utilize the money. And so, I had reported that to head management and head management basically told me to be quiet. And I said, “I can't lay my head on my pillow knowing that an agency is using tax government money in order to still fund their business.”

Arwen Becker: Oh my God. Totally gives me goosebumps.

Angela Henderson: So, that for me is when I got a lawyer involved and I said, "If this hits media, A, I want to cover myself because I have disclosed this to upper management. They're choosing not to do anything but, B, this isn't okay. This is not how you utilize funds to help those with mental health.” So, the lawyer said that, "You do know as soon as we send this letter, you're going to have an axe on your back?” I said, “I'm fine because it's the right thing to do and I have a voice.” And so, for that person who unfortunately has passed away, he doesn't have a voice to be able to do anything about it and I do it in my role. It's my responsibility to advocate for people who don't have a voice. So, I did. And sure enough, as soon as the letter got sent, I've been in that role for five years and I was getting pulled into the office going, "Oh, your dress attire is inappropriate.” But I'm like, “I've been wearing the same outfit for five years.” So, they were trying to get me, “Oh, and why were you ten minutes late? Why did you go on the Internet and look at something that wasn’t work-related on your lunch break?” Like, every little bit they were trying to just they kept picking, kept picking, kept picking. And then I just started taking sick days because I was like, “I just need to have a day off.” And then the sick days turned into more than that's what I was off on, long service leave, et cetera. So, in addition to dealing with the death, I was still working. And so, yeah, so I've been in remission now for two years. But again, as an ex-mental health clinician, understanding how I used to diagnose people with anxiety, depression, and that, and then being on the other side with a lived experience, it definitely adds to your compassion for people.

Arwen Becker: Was that harder for you to get to the place where you had to finally get on medication to deal with it? Or was it easier because of your background? Because I've talked to different people who have also like clinical psychologists that have no problem helping to diagnose and help other people, but in their own lives, they were falling apart, and yet they struggled applying the same tools and techniques and direction to their own lives. Did you have that issue or did you find it to be…?

Angela Henderson: I had reached out early on to my GP, but then my GP moved me to the psychiatrist because she's like, "Ange, I'm happy to deal with common colds, but let's send you to a psychiatrist.” So, there I was going, you know, all the questions you're asking me, everything you do, this is what I do on a daily basis. So, it was kind of like I pretty much went in there already to diagnose myself. And yes, was it hard? Not necessarily. It was more. What was hard was having to try to understand the loss and the grief behind, you worked for an adult f*cking mental health facility who helps to reduce suicide and support people in their mental health but they've caused you to have your own diagnosis of anxiety and depression. And then when you kick back the paperwork to say that this is going on, they then try to get you out as an employee. Like, that's the part that was hard, not asking for help, the part going, “How did you wrap your head around that this is a service for mental health and you're causing this to someone else?”

Arwen Becker: Right. And you're justifying something that is completely legal.

Angela Henderson: Right. You start questioning yourself going, “Is this happening? Like, is this a movie? Am I paranoid?”

Arwen Becker: The whole gaslighting thing, you're questioning yourself. Did I do something I should have not? Did I misinterpret something? Yeah.

Angela Henderson: And then you're like, "No, this has nothing to do with me and this is what they want to do.” And I was like, "No, you saw the paperwork. You've got the documentation. I'd had like 80 something emails that the lawyers received because I made sure I had everything printed before I left.” So, that was probably the harder. It wasn't so much asking for help. It was trying to process how an organization who works with adult mental health does this to one of their own.

Arwen Becker: Right. Oh, gosh. I imagine it was. And how long until you were or is that process over or are you on the other side of that?

Angela Henderson: Yeah. So, then what happens is in Australia, under the law, if I refuse to give my medical records, again, I'm not dumb. Once you give your records to your workplace, it's not one person has it. It's whoever they want to show those records to. So, I had refused to give my medical records over and because of that, they can do a thing in Australia called ill retire. So, they ill-retired me because I “wouldn't cooperate” with giving them what they wanted and I was happy to be ill-retired because I refused my medical records to be given to a workplace. I just refused from a privacy perspective. And also, then that's on your record. Do you know what I mean? If I'm going to go back I was like, "No.” So, then they said technically they then made it out like because I refused to cooperate. No, it was because I had a choice. I didn't want you to have my records. They didn’t have a loophole to ill retire. So, that's wrapped up a few years. Yeah.

Arwen Becker: But like you said at the beginning, all of these things that happen in your life that they work together for a greater good and that there's purpose behind them. And obviously, you're finding yourself on the other side and continuing to uncover what the purpose was specific to that incident.

Angela Henderson: Listen, I believe I'm a better business consultant, A, because of my background of being a mental health clinician but also have gone through that. I also leverage my voice for mental health, not only as a clinician but as a lived experience. So, any slide deck in any presentation I do as a keynote speaker or at a summit or whatever, there's a slide that goes black. And I said, "Some of you might be thinking that this is the screen of death but the thing is, is if you're going to learn from me, you're not only going to learn that I'm a mother and I ran two multi-six-figure businesses, but you're also going to learn that I suffered from anxiety, depression. And though I am in remission, it is important that we break down the stigma around mental health, specifically women and entrepreneurship.” So, I leveraged my story about that. I don't like to dwell on the past because, again, the past is the past but what can we do to change the future? So, how breaking down? You know, you have a heart attack, you go to the doctor, you break your leg, you go get a cast, but God forbid we go and get help for mental health. So, I’m very much about how do I amplify my voice to make a bigger impact.

Arwen Becker: Amen. So good. Oh, so many women need to hear that. So many people need to hear that, but especially women because we often take care of everybody else but we're not very good at taking care of ourselves. And just like you said, there is such a stigma around mental health and same thing in the States. I mean, we see the same thing. I had a friend who committed suicide. He was my age. He was in his mid-40s. He had teenagers at home. And just everybody was just in an absolute tailspin because we couldn't figure out what to do to help him. I mean it's just the whole thing. So, I just commend you for utilizing your own personal experience to be able to encourage women to get on the other side of their own, because we come up to those moments in life at all different times throughout our life and feeling like we're crazy, feeling like we're the only one that nobody can relate to it, and yet it's shocking. And that's what I have loved about this podcast is when you talk to women who have gone through things, it's amazing how many women are going, "Yeah. Hand up. That's me. I totally went through that, too.” “Oh, my gosh. I went through it, too.” “Oh, my gosh. I went through that, too.” And then you find that you aren't alone in that. And that's such an important component. And so, for you to be able to offer that to women, that's really, really valuable. So, what would you say in these last number of years going through a lot of loss, a lot of hurt, and a lot of struggle, what would you say are the three biggest things that you took away from that experience?

Angela Henderson: Yeah. I mean, I would still say, number one, it’s your life, your responsibility is what I would say. I would say there's always opportunity if you choose to look for opportunity and the importance of daily gratitude. There's always something to be grateful for on any given day.

Arwen Becker: Yeah, that's for sure. Do you have like a gratitude journal or something like that that you do as a specific practice?

Angela Henderson: I don't do a gratitude journal per se but every night before I go to bed, the last thing I do is list three things or say in my mind that I'm grateful for. So, again, we know that as you start to go into those sleep stages and things like that, how it solidifies and helps positively from a brain perspective. So, it's the last three things I say before I go to bed at night.

Arwen Becker: Oh, that's so good. Do you do it with your kids?

Angela Henderson: Yes. So, my kids that we always talk about what's the one thing you're grateful for? Our dog is that we have a British bulldog that we've got a year ago. Her name is Grateful. So, yeah, my thought is that they have to call her Grateful 80 times a day, that hopefully by the time they're adults, that they understand the importance of gratitude since our dog is called Grateful and they practice one thing they're grateful for each day. And then we also end on an affirmation of, “I'm amazing and I am loved.”

Arwen Becker: Oh, so good. What a good mom. I knew you were a good mom. How old are your kids, by the way?

Angela Henderson: Finlee will be 12 at the time of recording in just a couple of weeks and Chloe Glenella will be 9 in January.

Arwen Becker: Oh, that's wonderful. Oh, what day is Finlee’s birthday?

Angela Henderson: August 25th.

Arwen Becker: I’m the 18th. You said in a couple of weeks so I was like, “Hm, maybe we’re pretty close, the August birthday.” So, these is our rapid-fire three questions. You ready? All right. So, the best piece of financial wisdom you've been given?

Angela Henderson: I mean, financial wisdom, there's a lot of them but the one that I've recently implemented and I wish that I would have done it earlier is through a modality called Profit First. And Profit First allows you to be able to better control your finances into these buckets of money. So, whatever money comes in, you then distribute them into, like for me, a profit fund and operations expenses and this. And it's just over the last six weeks of just even doing that. Even though I've heard about it, I never implemented it and then I finally did it. And I was like, "Oh my gosh, this is a game-changer,” because you actually have better control and can better see where your funds are going. So, it’s not like just opening up another savings account. There is a method to it. So, I'd encourage women to look up the book Profit First by Michael Malinski I think his name is. Yeah, it is really an eye-opener. Again, allowing women the opportunity to have better control and understanding of their financial situation.

Arwen Becker: That's good. Really good. Do you have another book that you want to share, a book that you like and why other than that one?

Angela Henderson: Yeah. So, another book that I absolutely love and it's not just about business, but it can be also about life is the book called The Go-Giver by Bob Burg and John David Mann. They talk about the five laws of stratospheric success and I'm just - as I'm looking at the book, just trying to find it. Yeah. They talk about the five laws of stratospheric success and really it was an eye-opener about the importance of just adding value to either business in life. They talk about the law of value. Your true worth is determined by how much more you give in value than you take in payment. So, it's not just payment as in a business payment, but just what are you looking for as a transaction in life any given day? The law of compensation, your income is determined by how many people you serve and how well you serve them. The law of influence, your influence is determined by how abundantly you place other people's interests first. The law of authenticity, the most valuable gift you have is to offer yourself. And the law of receptivity, the key to effective giving is to stay open to receiving. So, for me, it's just a really daily reminder that in the world we live in when things are out of our control is that you can still always be kind and you can still always show value to any person down the road in front of you, at the supermarket, in the car. If you lead with value, how can your life not be filled with profit from a business point of view, but just from goodness? And I do believe what goes around comes around, so just about leading the value.

Arwen Becker: Absolutely. We say we have one mission and that's to leave you better. That's we run our life and our company on because if that is the only task that you're trying to do and it's not to receive something from somebody or get the next sale or whatever it is, just to be able to leave somebody better than you found them, just like you said, everything else, everything else falls in line. It always does. And that's a great book. And it's actually a pretty simple read. It's not too long, so I definitely would recommend that one as well. So, how can everybody, oh, actually, no, favorite quote. Last one. What's your favorite quote?

Angela Henderson: My favorite quote is conversations equal connections would equal conversions. So, from a place of business, but also from a place of just being a human, there's so much ability to have conversations with people, but people don't have conversations anymore. And if you have conversations, you get great connections and conversions from a business, yes, you might make more people, but conversions from a place of just good, feeling good again, filling your cup up. So, to me, it’s conversations equal connections, which equal conversions. So, yes.

Arwen Becker: So, is that a quote of yours?

Angela Henderson: Yeah. I haven’t seen it anywhere else.

Arwen Becker: Good. I was wanting to make sure. Just make sure that we give you credit for that.

Angela Henderson: I haven't seen it anywhere else. So, if there is, I always give credit where credit is due but that’s what I say to clients. Even when I work with people and from a therapeutic perspective like always look for conversations because the good that can come from it is so great.

Arwen Becker: Yeah. You know, one of the things I wanted to ask you, did you grow up as an athlete?

Angela Henderson: I used to do, yes, sport in high school. So, I did basketball and volleyball.

Arwen Becker: Yeah. Because I played volleyball at the University of Washington. So, you just said there are certain things about you. I'm like, “I think I'm talking to a fellow athlete. There's no doubt about it.” So, I think there are so many of those skills that you learn early on through sports really help us in business and life so I think that's really great. So, how can all of our listeners get a hold of you? Give us all the juicy details, websites, any offerings, anything that you have we’ll put in the show notes.

Angela Henderson: Yeah. I mean, again, so the best bit is you can connect with me. I'm pretty much over on Instagram, which is always great. My handle is just Angela Henderson Consulting. Or again, if you are needing any type of help with business, you can just head to my website, AngelaHenderson.com.au and from there you can pick and choose if you want to listen to the podcast, the Business & Life Conversations Podcast, you want to read a blog article, you want some help, let me know but, yeah, head to AngelaHenderson.com.au.

Arwen Becker: And what did you say the name of the podcast is again?

Angela Henderson: The Business & Life Conversations Podcast,

Arwen Becker: Business & Life Conversations. I'm going to look that one up. Very good. Oh, I love it. Well, my dear, you have been such a blessing to me and I'm so grateful that you from a day away tomorrow morning in my world that you took the time to come on and share your heart, share the things that you've been through, but more importantly, just to be able to arm a woman, many women out there with the tools that they need to believe that they can get through those things that they're facing. So, I sincerely, sincerely appreciate you doing that.

Angela Henderson: No worries. Thanks so much for having me. I hope you have a great night.

Arwen Becker: Yeah. Thank you so much. And hopefully, we will see you sometime in some near future when the world becomes a little bit more normal, we can travel around again. So, alright, my dear.

Angela Henderson: Certainly. Thank you so much.

Arwen Becker: All right. Thank you very much. Take care. Bye.

Angela Henderson: Bye.

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