040: Beauty and Worth are Found Within with Tia Glover

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040: Beauty and Worth are Found Within with Tia Glover

On a daily basis, Tia Glover found herself defending her appearance at her boarding school when she was just 8 years old. She was surrounded by girls that weren’t of the same race or from the same background, and she always felt like she stood out like a sore thumb. It happened so often that she didn’t even know she was dealing with feelings of rejection as they took root.

Now, Tia runs a full-service image and style coaching business in Washington, D.C., where she’s helped clients of all backgrounds project and improve their image. Raised in England and Nigeria with a background in law and psychology, she has a deep understanding of the fact that a positive first impression gives people much-needed confidence and positions them to achieve great success.

Today, Tia joins the podcast to talk about the gifts (and curses) parents leave their children with, finding acceptance in simply being yourself, and the power of truly understanding self-worth.

Overcomer Playlist Recommendation 

Pearls of Wisdom


“There is nothing that you could do to alter yourself or empower yourself that would make you more than enough than you already were. I’m already enough. I’m already of value.” - Tia Glover Click To Tweet “Power comes from understanding that your worth does not come through another person.” - @LIFEwithArwen Click To Tweet “I’m not going to let that seed take root. I’m going to plant beneficial seeds within my garden, and I believe that I’m a valuable soil to find other things that should go into it.” - @LIFEwithArwen Click To Tweet “Just because it was said doesn’t mean that it’s true.” - Tia Glover Click To Tweet “It doesn’t matter how others see us so much as it does how we see ourselves.” - Tia Glover Click To Tweet “Love is never any better than the lover.” - Toni Morrison Click To Tweet


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Connect with Arwen Becker


Arwen Becker: I am so excited that you have joined us today and I'm really excited about my guest today because her strength and really her vocation has been a gift to me in an area that I've really carried a lot of shame and discontent throughout my life. So, I'm actually open by reading a small snippet out of my book that really speaks to this.

“My blessings included that my mom was and is an amazing seamstress. I remember walking through fabric stores and helping her decide what cool fabrics she would use to make my next outfit. I would beg her to purchase something more expensive and often caused considerably more work because of my pattern choice. The memories are etched in my mind, these glaring fluorescent shining lights on the fabric and the old ladies that worked there. I mean, come on, when you're 12, everybody is old. Above all, I remember the walls of these taupe file cabinets filled with patterns for that one perfect, beautiful dress that my mother would make me for the upcoming dance. Sitting at the tables, I'd flip through the books and I'd admire all the models, and I just pray that my mom could make that one dress that was perfect. She could. She always could. She was and is incredible at sewing. I had every color and pattern of spandex known to man during the 80s. And alterations, jeez, she worked magic. This was fantastic during the late 80s when we wanted our jeans skin-tight, so much so that we needed somebody else to help pull them off at the end of the day. And if they ever got wet, those babies were never coming off.

She never had to say no for difficulty, only for the price to buy the pattern and the fabric to go along with it. Tragically, sewing is not hereditary. I can't even sew a hem. Deep down, I relish the fact that she made these stunning dresses with these luscious fabrics. They always fit like a glove and I would never run into a “who wore it best” situation. She made all four of my homecoming dresses, my junior prom dress, and my wedding dress. My wedding dress pattern was plain at best and so my mom dazzled it out by sewing hundreds of crystals and fabric flowers on it, most of which went on the train, which I, of course, wore for about 30 minutes. After about some thirty hours enhancing this dress, my mom said she would never do that again, no matter how much somebody paid her. And this is the love of a mother, a gift of a mom, my mom. But thinking back to middle school, as much as I admired my mom, I was still embarrassed when other girls would compliment me and asked me where I got my outfit. I felt shame that we didn't have money to buy it from the mall, even though it was made better and it fit perfectly. I ached desperately to go to the mall and pick out an outfit like all my friends had, especially to buy a shirt from Guess that declared Guess in really large letters across the front. That would prove that my mom didn't make it. To this day, I cannot stand shopping at the mall because I have such terrible memories of going and not being able to buy anything more than $20.”

And thank God my guest today loves to shop because she has helped me in this area. Tia Glover currently runs a full-service image and style coaching business based in Washington, DC, where she successfully has helped clients of all backgrounds project and improve image of themselves. Her success comes from a deep understanding that a positive first impression gives you the confidence and positions you for greater success. She was educated in both England and Nigeria with a background in law and psychology. I did not know that. That is awesome. She loves to travel and her friends would say, just like I am saying, she is a great shopping buddy.


Arwen Becker: Tia, welcome to the show.

Tia Glover: Thank you for having me, Arwen. I'm so excited.

Arwen Becker: Yes, I am excited too. I think it was right around January of 2020 so right before COVID hit, I had asked for some help. I asked for you to come through my closet, start helping me look at what I owned and maybe some of the changes that I could make to have a, I don't know, a more suitable wardrobe or just something that maybe was a little bit different. I don't know. I just knew that I needed a change and I was so grateful because when you said to me, "Well, okay, so there are some things that we're going to need to get to enhance your wardrobe. Would you like to go buy them or did you want me to go buy them for you?” And I was like, "Oh, please, you go buy them for me,” because that's what you do.

Tia Glover: That's what I do and it's what I enjoy. So, secretly and selfishly, I was quite happy that you didn't want to sit anywhere near a shopping center and quite happy to do that for you.

Arwen Becker: Have you always enjoyed shopping? Is that something from a young girl that you enjoyed?

Tia Glover: Yeah. I would say yes. I mean, my mom, I come from a long line of girl-girls, girly girls. And so, dressing up, the makeup, the hair, the perfume, just watching my mom over the years, I think definitely influenced me from a very young age.

Arwen Becker: And to your daughters, because you've got a couple of daughters, are they the same?

Tia Glover: Very much the same. Very much the same. I don't think I have it any other way, to be honest. Actually, it's interesting because my 12-year-old now has severely advised me that I will no longer be buying her clothes. So, we've gone through this even though she knows that this is what mommy does for a living. I’m like, "You do know that I'm a professional,” but I've had to pull back a bit and let her take pride in her own creativity, the way she sees herself, and just enjoying dressing herself, which is something that really one has to exercise, get used to, and get comfortable with. And so, I'm surely not stepping in the way of that. I'm loving seeing what she's becoming.

Arwen Becker: Did you have that with your mom, too? Was there a time period? Did your mom help you with these things? Did you have any of that push back to where you're like, "This is my thing now?”

Tia Glover: You know, it's interesting actually. I think at a very young age, I came off to two brothers. And so, I think my mom was just so happy to throw pink and a bow on someone that when I actually recently I was looking back at some older pictures and I think she really had a field day with dressing me and just doing that girl thing. But I would say that during my esteeming years where I was learning how to dress myself and my body type and things like that, I was ready in boarding school. I went to boarding school from the age of eight. So, a lot of that I learned myself and by the other women who were around me who were, again, young girls. So, I think in that sense, that process was a little bit delayed.

Arwen Becker: Yeah. And in boarding school, did you have to wear uniforms?

Tia Glover: Yes. We wore uniform and even during physical activities, we had P.E. uniforms. So, essentially the only time we weren't wearing uniform was over the weekend and your pajamas at night.

Arwen Becker: Interesting. Yeah. I still wonder if I had a mom like yours, which actually my grandmother was like that. She was always dressed to the nines. Whenever I start, she’s just a classy, classy woman. She would always give me Cache Magazines when Cache was in business for the 35 years they were in business or whatever it is, and she would dogear pages and go, "This dress would look great on you,” because I hated wearing dresses. I was such a tomboy. It was like pink, “No, nobody's ever getting me in pink.” And so, it's interesting that I grew into that, but it took me a while to embrace the feminine part of me that didn't feel like I had to prove that I had to be like ready at any moment to compete with the boys. Do you follow me like within clothes and stuff? Hair is pulled back. Never have it all down. Making sure I'm wearing my tough skin pants. All of those fun things. Yeah. Well, I know one of the things that I talk about a lot on the show is these generational patterns that often we get into throughout life and we see things that are going on in our past, and they kind of perpetuate on forward. And I know that that was something that you had mentioned, that you were really fighting to undo this rejection and self-esteem issues that you dealt with but you also recognize that they were things that your mom or maybe I should say mom because that’s what you say that she dealt with.

And to really be able to put your daughters in a place where they're not dealing with it in the same way and be able to kind of break that generational curse. So, why don't you kind of take us back to maybe where that struggle began for her or for you?

Tia Glover: Yeah. No, it's funny because you started off sharing that wonderful story about your mom and you spoke of gifts, and that what stuck with me because I think of the gifts that we get from our parents, especially as women, the gifts we get from our mothers and for lack of a better term, the other things that we get that are almost gifts but not the joyful kind of gifts, the things that we pass on to our children, not even knowing that we're doing so. And so, when I think of rejection, I mean, I think nobody loves rejection. I don't think anybody is going to go out of their way to seek rejection. But I think we've all been rejected over the course of our lives and there are different types of rejection. I mean, you have the rejection from the boy that you just absolutely love and he just would not look your way and those are the type of rejections you look back at and you're like, "Thank God he had no interest in me.” He actually did me a favor. He didn’t feel like it at the time but a favor it was. But then you also have this feeling of rejection that, “I'm not good enough. I don't matter. I'm not of value.” And that's something actually that I could date back to my grandmother. I think it's a seed that gets sown and you don't even know. I don't think it was an intentional seed. It's the seed that just fell on the soil and took root and showed up unexpectedly. You've got this massive rose garden and all of a sudden you've got this really queerly ugly weed growing right through it and you have no idea how it got there.

So, for me, I think the first time I ever felt rejection was being in boarding school. I mean, I know that that doesn't necessarily sound like a terrible life. It was quite a privileged life but if you think I look at my daughters now and I think what it would be like not being part of their day-by-day, not seeing how they do their hair for school that day or what they decided to wear and having that back and forth banter with, "Oh, I was going to wear this. Well, I'm going to wear that,” or, “I really like it when my hair is like this,” or even what's going on in their day. So, I realize even now raising my kids that there are some of those stories and some of those memories that I don't have to share from my point of view because I had been alone for so long and not for any reason, not because I wasn't wanted or anything like that but I think at the time, boarding school was really seen in England to be the best education you could give your child. So, that was a decision that was made, not that I was some terrible, undisciplined child. I probably was that too. So, I say all that to say that a girl growing up she does look to her mother. She does look to the women around her to form her identity and self-esteem. Well, the women around me were girls and they were especially girls that didn't look like me. They weren't of the same race or the background that I had. We didn't have the same features. So, I stood out like a sore thumb.

And on a daily basis, I had to defend my appearance. I had to defend why my hair was so curly, why my lips were a bit fuller, and my nose. And that's a lot. That's a huge feat to do right now at 40, let alone at 8. But at the time, I didn't even know that I had feelings of rejection. They didn't actually take root. I'm sure it took root in the way I behaved, the decisions I made, but I don't think I actually had a word for it until I was older and a little bit more mature in my understanding of self to know where certain feelings and ideas about myself were coming from. And it definitely came from a place of rejection. And I'd be lying to say that didn't show up in an interesting way with my relationship with my mum, who I loved dearly. She's an amazing woman, an amazing mother. And it was never anything that she said, it was never anything that she did, but there was this constant feeling of I had to do something in order for her to love me or I had to be a certain way in order for her to accept me or receive me.

Arwen Becker: Was that because that was the only way you got feedback from her? Did she not initiate those things that would tell you that so you had to do something in order to receive some sort of positive feedback from her? Is that how that went?

Tia Glover: Yeah. I do think we fell into that pattern and I'm careful with this because part of rejection is believing your own narrative. So, I can say that to you that, yes, that was the only way I received feedback and she could be sitting next to me today and say that's absolutely not the case. But I feel like once you already are coming from a space of rejection, you receive rejection.

Arwen Becker: That's your lens. It's the lens that you looked through.

Tia Glover: That's your lens. It's the gift that you’re given that you willingly accept for some reason, without the knowledge of knowing that you could actually put it aside and not accept it whatsoever. So, I think that was a changing point for me. Rejection for me was, yes, I've seen these things through this lens and I felt in order to gain love, in order to gain acceptance, it was by doing or being but it was never by just being me. But the funny thing that's interesting is I think if you were to have that conversation with her, it would baffle her because, again, it's the seed that gets dropped that nobody knows that they sowed. And when I think back at my mom, when she was my age, she didn't have her mom in her life. My mom's half English and half Nigerian and her parents got married in Nigeria. And during the war, my grandmother left to go back to England. So, my mother's formative years, she was just with her dad. So, she also didn't have a woman around her to say, "Your hair is beautiful just the way it is. Your features are amazing just the way it is.” So, it's interesting because when you look at things through a lens of rejection, the narrative you tell yourself is oftentimes they didn't love me this way because I wasn't good enough or they don't value me. But the grace comes in and says, once you have an understanding of how rejection was, you realize that you're assuming that the person can value you not knowing whether or not they actually value themselves.

Arwen Becker: Yeah. It's so often just a projection of who they are.Because you're trying to help impact your daughters in a different way, which I imagine has been tough at times because you probably go back to habits of maybe how you would have been handled as a child versus what's best for them to feel better about themselves, right?

Tia Glover: Yeah. You know, I wish I could remember this podcast that I listened to and the lady said so much about parenting, has been so much about us more so than the child and I always tried to keep that at the forefront of my mind because, gosh, if I had parented based out of my deficits, me and my children would be a mess. I made a conscious decision when I was carrying my daughter, who's my firstborn, I didn't know I was having a girl. I wanted a girl. Everybody off the street would tell me I was having a boy but I just knew that like I don't care if I have six children. There has to be a girl in there. You know, I'm a girl’s girl. Anyway, she finally came and the announcement that she was a girl and it's amazing actually. That was when I had to stop doing most of my work because then I realized as I was parenting her and how was my response to her initially was definitely out of the case of deficit. It was out of a place of a lack in me. And then as she got older and she's repeating to me the things that I say to her or she's playing with her dolls and she's engaging with this doll the way I engage with her, I realize that the mission here was definitely to parent out of a place of strength. And I was only going to be as good as I was strong. And so, even with the cracks that I had, I had to go forth and start fixing them quickly because this girl was mirroring what I was bringing and I wasn't happy with what I was bringing whatsoever.

Arwen Becker: How did you do that? I mean, for you, recognizing them is one thing but fixing them is another. I mean, what did that look like for you?

Tia Glover: I would say it was walking in purpose, intention, consciousness, and being really careful with my mouth and my thoughts. You know, people would really believe this about me, but I don't think, I mean, I think the early years for women are the hardest. And the older we get, the better we get. But I was never secure about my looks, who I was, how I showed up. That was never a strength of mine then. It's interesting that right now my career is educating people on how they show up, how they look, how they're received. The reason for that was because I was looking into other people for validity, for affirmation. And I think the older I got and the strength I got from being this little girl's mother, it taught me that I had to feel those things for myself. I had to equip myself with those things, believe it. That was the seed that I was intentionally going to sew. And so, when it took up roots, I knew what was there, not the one that fell mistakenly, but the one that I intentionally planted. And that was changing with me. And it wasn't an aha moment. This was loads of breakdowns, loads of arguments, loads of poor choices because I didn't expect more for myself. And this is not an isolated behavior with just my relationship with my mom but here's the thing.

If you have a parent, you have two parents, some people are privileged to have two parents, even if you just have one parent, whether that be your biological parent or your adoptive parents, whoever is your caretaker, it's a winding road when you aren't convinced that that person who should love you the most sees value in you. Well, if they don't see value in you, absolutely nobody could see value. At least that’s the narrative you tell yourself. And there could be so many other factors for that but that is the narrative and the lens in which you've received that information. And you can live in that until you come to a point of awareness that your validity, your purpose, who you are, your value, even if somebody birthed you, chose you, adopted you, married you, they don't control those things. Those are things that you were born with. And then you take that person off the hook and then you realize what you have and then you strengthen yourself and then you start to give out of the place of strength and overflow as opposed to deficit.

Arwen Becker: And what power comes from understanding that your worth does not come through another person? I mean, to be able to stand in that is such a place of strength when you realize there is no external source outside of tapping into the creator of the universe. There's no external source that is going to be able to give you a consistent flow of who you are and who you should be. And I just want to pull out one thing that you said. One specific word that I thought was so important is you talked about intentionality and I had another guest who was talking about dealing with OCD and her therapist had used the term intrusive thoughts. And I never heard that term that way but it makes all the sense in the world. And what you were saying too is that you think these things, and those are these intrusive thoughts, these negative thoughts that come through, but nobody has to give attention to them or power to them. Just because the thought comes through does not mean that that is who I am. Just because somebody told me I am not of value or told me that I'm worthless or told me that I am stupid or that I’m not pretty or I'm not as good as my sibling or whatever it is, those we can give power to or we can do what you're talking about which is the intentional and say, "No, I'm not going to let that seed get planted in my rose garden,” as you said. It was such a beautiful word picture. I'm not going to let that seed take root. I'm going to plant other beneficial seeds within my garden. And I believe that I'm a valuable soil to find other things that should go into it. I just wanted intentionality. I think it was so good.

Tia Glover: And I love what you say about intrusive thoughts. And to your point, not only does it matter that it was said or you receive it, but just because it was said doesn't mean that it's true.

And it's interesting, I mean, to just bring it down to a very superficial level. Oftentimes when I meet with clients and we're talking about how they dress themselves or how they see themselves, this woman could be 40, 45, 60, I would tell you, eight times out of ten, somebody says to me, "Oh, I never thought I could wear this because my mom always used to say I was too tall or my boobs are too big,” or nothing that your mum would ever think would be harmful. But for some reason, that one sentence, forget about all the other things she said like your beautiful blond hair or your lovely brown eyes, that that one thing has now become a hindrance and you've used it as an obstacle in how you see yourself because you place so much value in her feedback. And we often forget that that woman is somebody else's child who may or may not have received validity and affirmation from their mum. And this is the beginning of this generational pattern, this cycle that if we just accept that this is the way it's done or this is how our family is and we’re jovial that we make fun of our appearances or we say you were ugly, but we really mean you're pretty, all those things, if we’re not intentional with how we proceed, it continues.

Arwen Becker: Right. Yeah. How long have you been in your line of work? How long have you been a style coach?

Tia Glover: I’ve owned my business since 2008. And before then I kind of, you know, I'm studying law and psychology. I was always in the rag trade in terms of modeling or retail or things like that.

Arwen Becker: I loved our first conversation when you - I had so much anxiety about having somebody come over and look through my stuff. It's just because I still battle with my own self-worth. A But you had a very delicate way of going through my stuff, looking through things, pulling things out, kind of figuring out what things maybe just needed to go, but doing it in a way that didn't reflect back on me in any way that I had somehow done something wrong. Like what you're talking about, like the kid who had the parent who told them like, "Why would you get a skirt that's like this?” That's not what you did. But what I love what you did is you opened my eyes to some unknown behaviors I had no idea that I was doing.

And partially because you went and looked through my social media and you went on my website and you went and saw my interviews and you said, "There's one thing I tend to see quite a bit, and that's that you wear black all the time.” And I honestly had not even been aware. So, you brought awareness, which was very, very interesting, but then really challenged me as to why I go there. And I just thought it was a really interesting conversation because here now, that was January-ish of 2020. So, here we are 16 months past that and…

Tia Glover: And you're not wearing black.

Arwen Becker: And I'm not wearing black. And every time I go shopping, I'll send you a picture of what I'm trying on or what I bought because I'm so proud of myself that through your help didn't again feel bad about what I had done in the past, but I was still trying to do this. I don't want to stand out too much. I don't want to, you know, whatever this whole construct that I had done, or it's just it's too difficult to try and figure out how to put these colors together, so let's just go with something I know and let's just go solid black. And it's such a gift for you to be able to provide people an understanding of how they see themselves. And that's what you're also doing for your daughters. You're giving them space to explore that, but also helping to bring some awareness. So, I commend you for what it is that you do because it terrifies me. Again, going to the mall terrifies me.

Tia Glover: Thank you for saying that. It's interesting. What you said I think is so important is what's most important is how we see ourselves. That's where it starts. It doesn't matter how others see us so much as it does how we see ourselves. And nobody can give you that vision, not your mom, not your sister, not your husband, not your colleagues. You have to walk in the understanding of how you see yourself. And I remember some of the conversations we had and hopefully, it's not too much to share but I'm thinking, “Gosh, this beautiful woman, stunning,” and I got the sense that you’re almost dumbing down your beauty. You're hiding away from it. And we unpack the conversation, you're like, "Well, I was very sporty and athletic and I didn't want my beauty to ever be a hindrance.” And I'm thinking, "It's a gift.” Look in the understanding that it's a gift and actually could be a blessing to people, just your beauty alone. The warmth and invitation of your features that even that has purpose, even that has meaning. But for so many reasons we decide to downplay what we think we need to downplay and that could be the very thing that somebody else needs.

Arwen Becker: So true. Oh, so very true. Absolutely. Hit it perfectly. So, when you think about, gosh, you're growing up, you've got these beautiful daughters you’re raising, what you do for work, all of these pieces combined, yet looking back at your history and your own self-esteem and value, what would you say are three of the things that you have really taken away through that experience?

Tia Glover: I'd say, one, they're watching. They are watching me like a hawk. They're watching me. So, I need to be very clear about what I'm showing them. Two, never place your value in somebody else's hands and, three, there is nothing that you could do to alter yourself or empower yourself that would make you more than enough than you already were. And I think that those kind of change the perspective because if we came from a place of, “I'm already enough. I'm already of value,” there's nothing that I could do to negate that, to change it. Then we're already walking in our best selves. Nobody then has the power to diminish that. So, now let's say you have a breakup or you have a friendship that comes to an end and you're laying down and you're thinking, "What could I have done to change this? What happened? And why does this person not want to be in a relationship with me anymore?” These are the things that we as women would keep us up at night outside of the fact that there is an offense that took place or you've done something. You realize that you’re like this person no longer wanting to be in relationship with me doesn't take away from my value or whether or not they see my value. It just means that our season ends. So, you talk about intrusive thoughts. You kind of silence the noise like that. Relationships end. People get overlooked. Opportunities pass. But why do we always attribute that to our level of value or our level of worth? What if we just owned our value and worth and moved through life knowing that that just was removed because it wasn't for me, wasn't meant to be in my life?

Arwen Becker: It’s so powerful. Oh, my gosh. So much wisdom. My goodness, woman. Woo! I love that. There is about a bazillion things that I think we could tweet out that you have said because there's so much wisdom.

Tia Glover: Oh great. Well, that’s all I wanted to give you.

Arwen Becker: You know, I failed to actually ask you right at the beginning the song that you had picked to add to the Overcomer Playlist that we have. What was the song that you brought to us?

Tia Glover: It was God Morning. And I love it because it says I'm not going to sing it. Don't worry.

Arwen Becker: Oh, you're not? Come on.

Tia Glover: No, sorry. There’s a line in there that says, "God has flowers for me. God has flowers in me, and there are flowers for me.” And I love that because it just meant that not only is the beauty on the inside of you, it surrounds you, and you should be expecting it also.

Tia Glover: It’s a great good morning song.

Arwen Becker: Oh, is it?

Tia Glover: It really is. It really is.

Arwen Becker: Perfect.

Tia Glover: With your coffee and your music.

Arwen Becker: Excellent. And then so the last final three questions or rapid-fire three questions, you ready?

Tia Glover: I think so.

Arwen Becker: Ready for this? Okay. So, a best piece of financial wisdom you've been given?

Tia Glover: Pay yourself first. Save more than you spend even if there's a sale. Even if there’s a sale. Even at the Nordstrom annual sale. Choose wisely.

Arwen Becker: And this is the woman who would know. That's got to be hard. You know, I just was thinking this quick side note. My first full job was JC Penney Athletic Apparel. We were on commissions and anything that if you could wear it to work, you got 40% off. So, any time stuff would go on sale, and then it would go on clearance, and it was like, "Yeah, but I can also get another 40% off of it.” It was nearly impossible for me to save any money because I always had an excuse to buy it because it was so cheap. I have to imagine you run into that stuff when you're shopping for people all the time going, "Oh, this is so great.”

Tia Glover: All the time. And the barometer I use is if you wouldn't buy it, if it wouldn't have been as alluring full price, then you don't need it on sale.

Arwen Becker: That's good advice.

Tia Glover: Yeah. That’s the guideline. That’s it right there.

Arwen Becker: That's great. I love that. Perfect. Okay. So, then what about a book? Favorite book and why?

Tia Glover: I really love the book Boundaries by Dr. Cloud and Townsend because I think the best way to navigate relationships is setting up healthy boundaries. It helps you, it helps them, it helps everyone.

Arwen Becker: Especially for women because we often struggle in that so healthy boundaries. Very good. And then finally, a quote that you love.

Tia Glover: I would say, "Love is never any better than the lover,” by Toni Morrison.

Arwen Becker: Could you say it again?

Tia Glover: Love is never any better than the lover by Toni Morrison. And in this case, with this conversation, I would say we are the lovers. We are the lovers itself so we can never expect any love that's greater than the love that we give ourselves.

Arwen Becker: That's beautiful. I love it.

Tia Glover: We’re the lovers.

Arwen Becker: So good. So, how can our listeners get a hold of you? Tell us all the juicy details of where to find you.

Tia Glover: Okay. So, website is TiaGlover.com. Instagram is @theglovergirl. I could nearly not spell that then. Yeah. Get in touch with me. I'd love that.

Arwen Becker: Perfect. And you are such a light. You are so wonderful. I've learned so much from you even just watching how you live your life. And I think that there is a lot of truth to the fact that you love well, you really do want the best for your kids. You want the best for the people around you but you also walk in your own light. And that's what I see through how you are on social media because a lot of people want to put this false version of who they are. And that gets back to the self-worth piece, right, of wanting the accolades or posting things just so they'd get great feedback. And yet what you post is very much of who you are. It's bright. It's life-giving. You're a luxurious woman and I don't mean that in fabrics and great clothing. It's just that you choose to walk in the beauty and in the fullness of the beauty of who you are. And because of that, you give women just like me that people would assume always has thought that way, you give me the permission to do the same that I can walk in that fullness. So, thank you for doing that for all of us. I really appreciate that.

Tia Glover: Gosh, thank you so much, Arwen. And I am able to do it because I didn't always have it. And now that I have it, I cling onto it with both hands so that I can give it to somebody else.

Arwen Becker: Oh, I love it. Well, thank you so much for joining us on the show today, my dear.

Tia Glover: Thank you so much.


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